Ms Fucinari, no one argues the separation of powers between school board and city. Is it unheard of that a mayor visit classrooms? No, it isn't. Is there a complaint about the present mayor visiting classrooms? Yes, there is. Why?

There is no government intrusion here because the mayor and city government have no powers over the schools. Again, why the complaint? As if we didn't know.

Your just mad that your kids couldn't be mayor for the day!

Cathy, the comment about the kids is for you not ED

CC, any response to the mayor's invitation to participate in the contest had to be voluntary since she has no power to force anything. So, why the complaint?

We know who are among the "many" who think the mayor has created a divisive environment. We also know that they felt this way before the votes were cast, didn't like the voters' choice, and pursued a legal remedy.

Perhaps this offers another opportunity for someone to tell us how the city is being destroyed as a result of the election. Proof of such outrageous assertions, of course, will never be offered. It is sufficient in some peoples' minds merely to grind out some emotion-laden statements and hope the stuff sticks. We'll see.

Ed Lambert:

How about proving your outrageous conspiracy theory, that you keep wheeling out, that the recall Is because of the election results. Or are you only able to ask for proof and never give any.

Daffy, no conspiracy theory, just a fact established all over that when people of a common perspective feel threatened, they do what they can to remove the threat.

If you wish to call us conservatives conspirators, go ahead and do so. We feel insecure when elected officials do not pay sufficient attention to taxing and spending. And, yes, that includes the willingness to spend federal monies that don't actually exist. That is part of the liberal perspective regarding government.

To say nothing about the direction the country as a whole is taking these days.

Actually I wasn't making and won't make any illogical sweeping generalizations, because it would be changing the subject and dodging the question.

I said your conspiracy theory.

"I said your conspiracy theory." -Daffy

Huh?

I asked YOU for facts to justify YOUR theory that the recall is happening because of the results of the election. (Still waiting.) You launched into an unrelated topic about national politics and started injecting sweeping generalizations. I was not questioning any "we" because I don't acknowledge you represent anyone but yourself.

Daffy, I base my theory in part on the comments made by people who are most vocal about Daniels being recalled. They sprang into action very quickly and within a month had made up their minds that she should be recalled.

Not to mention the utter dislike of (maybe fear?) people associated with the tea party movement and a generally more conservative approach to government. We're broadminded in these parts; can't have anyone holding office not as broadminded as ourselves.

You claim the local issue is not related to national politics. I disagree. No, it is not Republican vs Democrat, it is liberal vs conservative. Hence, the tea party movement to create a true alternative to liberalism at election time.

So...you have no facts.

I believe some people feel misled because local politicians, including the mayor, didn't and don't identify their tea party affiliation come election time. Why is this? Also, for most people "conservative" means left of center, not tea party ideologue exclusively. But most people recognize using labels is not making an argument.

The issue is: you were asked about facts to support your accusation. Period. You still haven't given any, and you continue to change the subject and use sweeping generalizations to dodge and misdirect because you have no facts to give.

Daffy, where are your "facts" behind your statement that "most people "conservative" means left [right] of center, not tea party ideologue exclusively"?

To support my contentions I referenced the comments made by the recall supporters. Those comments are facts. Perhaps you can retrieve the comments from the archives for yourself. Perhaps yours will be among them.

Your assertion that I made "sweeping generalizations" is, also, merely your judgment. Perhaps you dislike the rather accurate picture painted in broad strokes about the liberal movement. I do know that the left likes to portray conservatives as bigots, etc., despite the history of American politics in the Democrat South.

By the way, does the Facebook remark make Daniels a bigot when the term she used is proudly flaunted by people like Barney Frank and is used in the title of numerous college courses and of websites? These are facts. Have at 'em.

Ed:

Re: "conservatives": I prefaced that paragraph with "In my opinion..." Do you seriously believe that most people only consider a person to be "conservative" if and only if they are tea party ideologues? Btw, thank you for the right/left correction.

The comments you cite don't prove the recall was planned before the election.

Everytime you use terms like "liberal" or "conservative" you are making a sweeping generalization and that is a fact. Labeling someone is not addressing their argument. It is inappropriate and misdirected. Witness how you project onto me that I see "conservatives as bigots" when I actually believe nothing of the kind. You again are demonstrating an association fallacy, which is an illogical sweeping generalization.

In my opinion the totality of the mayor's behavior demonstrate insensitivity toward gay people. Regarding your flaunting statement, please see the comments of Mr. Murrish's last blog where I answered this line of your thinking (which had also been answered before elsewhere.)

Daffy, no projection to you by me regarding labelling conservatives as bigots. I merely pointed out several times that people on the recall side cite the Facebook comment as indicative of bigotry. It does not, unless one happens to believe that certain language is off limits to some while acceptable in other circles.

You stated that "the totality of the mayor's behavior demonstrates insensitivy toward gay people." That is also a sweeping generalization. Her comments to the students were inappropriate because it places gays on the defensive, to say nothing of adding fuel to an already blazing fire. There is plenty of discussion within the professional "therapy" community itself regarding the issues she raised. That, however, is usually beside the point for people who have already adopted a certain perspective.

But I'll note again that it is one thing to battle bigotry, quite another to redefine terms to accommodate a special-interest group.

I missed your posting on Murrish's blog, but I'll try to locate it.

Ed:

You keep deflecting and bringing up unrelated topics.

In any case, your implication is clear: I am a 'liberal' according to you (whatever, who cares) and liberals believe xyz....

My statement about the mayor was absolutely not a sweeping generalization. If I were to say hebehavior was typical of (insert group), that would be a sweeping generalization. You asked my opinion on a specific persons behavior, and I answered it truthfully and can give a number of instances to support my opinon on this one one person. You might not agree with my opinion, but that doesn't make me wrong, and does not mean I am being unreasonable about being offended by the behavior.

Ms Fucinari, your comment reflects poorly on Mr. Szerlag. You have stated that he was run out of town by a woman who can't fire him!

As I understand it, Ms Daniels did not wish any city funds be expended in any way in promoting this civic exercise.

Ms Fucinari, perhaps you can tell us the definition of "patriotism" as Ms Daniels sees it.

You question why more people aren't offended by this. Perhaps there's a lesson in that for you.

Cathy, You've read into this far too much. Mayor Daniels is simply performing her job as Mayor of Troy... getting involved in the community in spite of the recall effort. I applaude her for that, many people would have run for the hills or stuck their head in the sand with the furor sent her way over the last 6 months (deserved or undeserved). As for my participation in the project, I love kids and I'm glad the applicants that joined this effort did so. I'm also honored to have been able to read 20 essays... it took me all of about 30 minutes. I chuckled at some, and admired all, wishing I would have had the desire to become politically interested at the age of 10. I promise you I'll work an extra 30 minutes this month on the manager search... seriously I can't believe you are truly concerned with our ability to participate in a reading exercise because it takes our attention off a critical event.

Also FYI, the essays I received to review had names removed and were assigned numbers. It was a completely random process based on content as far as I could see, My selections were # 37 & # 39. For all I know I may have selected the essay of the "extremist child" CC mentions above.

Dave -

First off, I never referred to any child in this contest as an "extremist child" and I don't appreciate you misquoting that. I assume that is not the way you were trying to portray it, but I want to be clear about that just so no one takes that and runs with it. The fact that one winner's parents are the authors of a blog that has loudly voiced support for the mayor and her politics does have to make one at least pause a little. There seems to be a little bit of a conflict of interest there.

Do I honestly believe that the results of this contest were fixed? No, I would find it highly unlikely. The problem is that the execution, similar to several other situations, leaves her opening to question. Why would the Mayor run this contest through her own web site, rather than through the city web site like every other city that does this type of contest? Why would the Mayor use a conservative political radio to collect and moderate the contest, rather than do it through city hall?

The Mayor's actions thus far have shown me that she places herself and her political platform above the city. It is not her conservative opinions that lead me to want her recalled. If so, then we would be trying to recall multiple people on the board. The difference between the Mayor and the other council members is that her actions suggest she is more worried about advancing her own political platform than advancing the City of Troy.

CC, I apologize for potentially misleading anyone that reads this into thinking you called the recipient an extremist. It's not much more of a stretch than your entire paragraph regarding the Mayor selecting the child of an extremist simply because they stand behind her for whatever reason. the 20 essays I read only had 2 entries that actually qualified to win the essay. Many of them had very similar language and structure leading me to believe a teacher may have coached the entire class with what to say. Not a bad thing, but the flavor of the contest was missed in the majority. 6 out of 60 entries were standouts, one happened to be a relative of the Jasky's. Why all the anxst? If you "honestly believe the contest wasn't fixed" why post at all? Could it be that the Mayor chose to do this on her own maybe as a little PR? Sure it could be, she could use a little good press these days, is there a rule against that? No, there isn't. If she'd have tried to run this through city employees, how many people would have jumped all over her for using city resources on non essential services like this. She is truly damned if she does, damned if she doesn't. At least Charlie Langton gives her a fair shake.

Again my apologies for the statement it was careless on my part, but I'm also getting weary of unfounded barbs. If you've got a true complaint about something shes done, bring it up, but to fabricate a crisis out of a really cool thing, that's unfortunate and unfair.

If you haven't noticed, I'll stand up against unfair.

No worries, Dave. I appreciate and accept the apology.

What I am talking about with the contest is the perception. The way it was run makes her look bad, and it could have been be avoided. Yes, she is in a tough position but I don’t subscribe to the “damned if she does, damned if she doesn't” theory. She brought this spotlight on herself with her poor choice of words in the past and her inability to express her remorse in a believable fashion (again, that was a perception…may not be reality). She also showed very little regard for courtesy when she spoke in front of previous councils in the past, so playing the victim card seems a little disingenuous.

The last straw for me was her “no” vote on the budget when she offered no suggestions on how to change it in the budget sessions. In the last budget session, Councilman Tietz gave asked if anyone wanted to voice any concerns and she remained silent. It seemed to me everyone on the council was trying to seek consensus, but it increased the perception that the Mayor is more interested in making a political statement than working together. It is possible you have inside information that causes a different perception, but that is just how it looks from the outside looking in.

It is why I think it is in the city’s best interest for her to step down. She has become the focal point of nearly every topic that involves the city. I don’t believe the city can truly move forward until she is out of office.

CT, I suspect that "sacrifice" wouldn't be in the definition that "the broadminded" would accept. Unless, of course, it is the sacrifice of someone else's gains so that they can be redistributed.

cookiepro2, there is the practice of "delegating" in the executive community. There is nothing wrong with getting knowledgeable people to do the specialized work in various areas that are part of city administration.

Besides, we had lots of the "practical art of governance" under the previous administration. It managed to create a profile that demonstrates Troy was (still is ?) paying higher-than-average salary/fringe benefits packages.

Robin Beltramini sat next to me at a meeting at the Community Center where this information was brought to light some weeks before the election. I don't recall her bringing this issue before Council, nor did I hear of her incorporating any of this data in her own campaign for the mayoralty.

Not that I would have expected her to do so. Maybe that in part explains the election results. Certainly, the majority of the voters were not scared to death by a candidate who had sympathies with that unorganized group known as the Tea Party Movement.

Something to consider, though I suspect it won't be.

"unorganized group known as the Tea Party Movement." Oh please! I would like to quote one of your members of this unorganized group you speak of--- THAT'S A BUNCH OF BUNK.

Cristian, no, they don't know who they are. You see, like fictional characters who fear garlic and daylight, they do not see themselves in a mirror.

What they fear more than garlic and daylight is rational argument. Reasoning interfers with emoting, which is where they are comfortable. Only there. Sometimes I think they take their cues from Cher? Ever hear her when she waxes eloquent about American culture, society and politics?

I've just read a summary of a doctoral dissertation by a person who was attempting to find the "virtues" that seem to be common in societies around the world. He found six, one of which is "respect for authority," which includes acceptance of metaphysical moral codes. When he looked more closely at American society, he found that this virtue was not found among those who identify themselves as liberals.

And then there's that branding of conservatives as "cold-hearted" and "stingy" despite the established fact that charitable giving is most pronounced in conservative regions.

Someone is watching to much FAUX NEWS! That most misinformed news of our time. Please use more than one news outlet if you care to learn facts.

Shinning (sic) light in dark places, give us a few concrete examples of how misinformed the viewers are of FNC. I can probably give you numerous facts relative to any major news item that are unknown to you because it was and is left out of MSM reporting.

The biggest complaint from the left is that FNC exists. Meanwhile, they couldn't cobble together enough listeners to keep Airhead America on radio.

We eagerly await your best shot.

Chris, I spoke out privately (my personal emails were FOIA'd) to the Mayor and publicly (review the meetings in December) regarding my opinion on the matters you mentioned. I'm not a big fan of the use of the Q word, but I back the rights of freedom we all have, including speech. My problem with the fury the innocent and bullied throng attacked the Mayor with is simply two wrongs don't make a right, and a punishment should be equal to the "crime". Again review the tape of the meetings in December. I sat through literally hours of people in and out of Troy beating the daylights out of the Mayor figuratively, and received literally hundreds of emails from around the globe filled with language I can't repeat, and physical threats. I also had direct contact with one of the high school kids before my election and after, and I expressed my concerns over the tactics used toward the Mayor and also gave accolades for the coordinated effort. I applaude anyone that chooses to get involved in the process. I hope to a certain degree I was able to, at a minimum, cool some of the rhetoric down... it was not productive in the press.

Got long winded there... and finally...

My strong opposition to a tax increase before appropriate cuts was well founded, and a very popular opinion at the time. My involvement is to make sure I am a part of the process going forward. Much like your lack of voting involvement, I found that if I didn't like how something was being run, it was time stop "whining" and take action. I did so, and plan on singing kumbaya while I keep spending in check for the next three and a half years.

Chris, your response, above, illustrates what I maintain as characteristic of the "great political divide" locallly and nationally. You use lots of emotional rhetoric. The only thing missing: "those mean, nasty, cold-hearted people." That is a characteristic of one political perspective, also displayed in the Troy Times recall ads. This is why some of us claim that the left is driven by emotion.

Cathy, the very notion of political compromise is certainly out of the question nationally, and I'm not sure it applies locally, either.

You like compromise? How about compromise of this type: A 15% CUT in expenditures is proposed. We compromise at 11%. We never hear of compromise along those lines. Instead we hear of compromise like this: A 15% INCREASE in expenditures is desirable. We compromise at 11%. That is still an increase.

Cathy, you are going the route that conservatives often and accurately of going: Brand the other side as intellectually inferior. Perhaps you got stung after blubbering about Szerlag being driven out of town by Daniels, and I responded that such a notion does not speak well of Szerlag, who could not be driven out by a person who cannot fire him.

You have the truth, do you? Well, that makes two of us with that claim. Do we take turns presiding from the throne? Do we flip to see who goes first?

Glad to know it is Ed who "really need[s] to get over [him]self." Come join us for coffee (hope I can make it). I think we can get lots of laughs off each other, jjust by ourselves.

Again, you use "bigotry" as you see it in Daniels (not founded) to mask plenty that is not conservative despite protestations that it is. Not always necessary first to spray the Windex before looking through the glass to see things clearly enough.

Others, please, no defense. I enjoy the repartee despite my "intellectual inferiority."

By the way, I've never been warned by the editorial staff that I should be civil or risk being banned from this site. I believe that was you.