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In Split Vote, Council Removes Section of Troy's Distracted Driving Ordinance

Councilman Dave Henderson argued the paragraph in question is "too subjective for police officers to enforce" while Councilman Dane Slater called the change "a huge mistake."

 

Troy City Council voted 4-3 Monday evening to direct city administration to prepare an amendment to Troy's strict distracted driving ordinance that removes an entire section of the ordinance.

The ordinance was implemented two years ago to help crack down on distracted driving incidents in the City of Troy.

The section council voted to remove reads: 

"Any action by the driver of a motor vehicle that diverts his or her attention resulting in the failure to use due care and caution in the safe operation of a motor vehicle while the vehicle is in motion on any highway or street or place open to the general public within the City of Troy. Such action can include but is not limited to: eating, reading, writing, performing personal hygiene/grooming, physical interaction with pets, passengers, or unsecured cargo, any of which is done in a manner that prohibits the driver from maintaining direct physical control of the motor vehicle steering mechanism with at least one hand that is free of all other objects and used entirely to form a controlled grip on the steering mechanism."

Councilman Dave Henderson argued that the ordinance leaves anyone engaged in the above activities open to citation, even if they are not driving dangerously as a result of the activity.

"If I'm swatting a fly, why should I be ticketed?" Henderson asked Monday. He added that the ordinance is "too subjective for police officers to enforce."

Troy Police Chief Gary Mayer said Monday that his officers do not issue citations under the ordinance without a good reason.

"We have a policy not to issue unless there is another violation," Mayer said, adding that the distracted driving ordinance is just "another tool in the police officer's belt."

Councilman Dane Slater sided with Mayer, saying that amending the ordinance only harms Troy Police officers' ability to effectively patrol the city.

"I think you're making a huge mistake," he said.

Mayor Janice Daniels and Councilmen Wade Fleming, Doug Tietz and Dave Henderson voted in favor of preparing the amendment. Slater, Mayor Pro Tem Maureen McGinnis and Councilman Jim Campbell voted against the change.

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  • Do you agree with Council's decision to remove a section of the distracted driving ordinance?

    (Voting has been closed for this question)
    • Yes – the ordinance is way too strict
        8 (21%)
    • No – the ordinance is fine the way it is
        29 (76%)
    • I'm not sure
        1 (2%)
    Total votes: 38
  • Your vote will only count once. This is not a scientific poll. View Results Vote!
Related Topics: Distracted Driving Ordinance, Troy City Council, and Troy Police Department
Do you agree with City Council's decision to remove a section of the distracted driving ordinance? Tell us in the comments.

Sue Martin

8:03 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

I was stunned that in the face of the advice, positive statistics and strong recommendations provided by the Troy Police Department, former officer Slater and lawyer Maureen McGinnis...four council members STILL persisted in voting this portion out of the ordinance.

I'd like to know what legal, law enforcement, or traffic training/experience any of those four have that qualifies them to know better than the professionals.

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Cathy Fucinari

9:45 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

I would like to know if Henderson, Tietz, Fleming, and Daniels will assume responsibility (financial and moral) for people injured due to distracted driving in Troy. I know that I will hold them responsible if anything happens to someone I care about! I have seen that this ordinance has made a difference on the roads. Councilman Slate is right. This is a HUGE mistake!

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GambitofTroy

1:57 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

The ordinance is still in effect right? The only part they took out was "...or anything else we feel like giving you a ticket for."

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Dave Henderson

10:09 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

I'm going to take a run at a couple of these and scoot. Gambitof Troy, you are absolutely correct... texting and phone use is still very much covered under the ordinance. The catch all reason for pulling you over for any reason, is out. Read below I'll address a couple other non concerns.

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Dave Henderson

10:20 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

One comment on this Cathy... we've not had a distracted driving ordinance since the 50's in Troy. The big change here is the advent of texting and cell phones. People have been eating and drinking in their cars since I was a kid. I'm pretty sure I watched my dad shave in his car growing up. Cell phones and texting are still covered under the ordinance, and we have careless and reckless driving tickets that can be issued if need be. You and your family are no less safe today than you were last week.

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Cathy Fucinari

9:06 am on Wednesday, August 15, 2012

Dave: If your father shaved while driving, I would consider that to be reckless driving! I hope he wasn't using a straight razor. In drivers training, they taught that the driver is ALWAYS responsible for being in control of his vehicle. You suggest that my family is just as safe as it was last week. I disagree. I saw a marked improvement in distracted driving since this ordinance was enacted. Good God, Dave, you drive a motorcycle. You should recognize and welcome improvements in road safety.

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Dave Henderson

11:16 am on Wednesday, August 15, 2012

Cathy the improvements we all saw were likely the enforcement of texting and driving, and arguably cell phone use. Both still in full effect. And multitasking in a vehicle does not equate to reckless driving. Thats my big issue with that portion of the ordinance. They made criminals out of you and I before we even committed a crime. My opinion of this is similar to the kid in Birmingham who was arrested carrying the gun openly. He committed no crime, but they arrested him for it anyway. If I'm driving between the lines, observing the speed limit, and not hitting the guy in front of me, stay out of my life. This law was invented to invade your personal space, and reach further than the law should reach. Again, my personal view. As a motorcycle rider, I didn't feel any safer before or after this ordinance, there are still bad drivers on the road, and will always be.

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Emily Gorishek-Mason

5:03 pm on Wednesday, August 15, 2012

@Dave Henderson: "People have been eating and drinking in their cars since I was a kid. I'm pretty sure I watched my dad shave in his car growing up." That may be the case, but I'm certain where ever your father was shaving did not have the sheer volume of traffic, added with the excessive speed, that we have today in Troy. That isn't a very good comparison. I sat in the front seat of our station wagon when I was five years old, that doesn't mean I will let my kids sit in the front seat. I didn't sit in a booster seat either. Times change. It is scary driving out there at times.
The ordinance merely required you to have one hand on the steering wheel at all times. I think it is a far cry to say the ordinance was making criminals out of people who never committed a crime. Are these people arrested? No. They are simply given a citation and hopefully will be more mindful driving through Troy from that point forward. How is that a bad thing? I'm confused. I mean, the ordinance says, "...resulting in the failure to use due care and caution in the safe operation of a motor vehicle while the vehicle is in motion on any highway or street or place open to the general public within the City of Troy." That means you have to violate the traffic law, correct? Aren't we past the days where the police are "The Man" coming after people for no reason? Give me a break. Observe the traffic laws and keep one hand on the wheel at all times, is that too much to ask?

Bill Warren

9:50 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

I have to agree with Sue. The majority of our City Council and Mayor are becoming an embarassment to our citizenry.

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Sue Martin

10:03 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

Chief Mayer patiently explained several times over the last two meetings that the portion of the amendment that has been voted out allowed officers to use discretion when ticketing.

Now, instead of having the discretion to ticket under the ordinance, many drivers will receive reckless driving citations that carry larger fines, points, etc.

The work the police do was called into question almost as though unethical, when in reality they are working to keep our roads and our drivers as safe as possible with every available tool.

It's a shame the majority of the council is more interested in their personal desires to grandstand over this issue rather than consider the universal benefit this ordinance had.

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cath

10:04 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

I think you're making a huge mistake," he said. and yes, that applies to most of what those 4 do ... Slater, Mcginnis, and Campbell are the voices of reason

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Emily Gorishek-Mason

10:39 am on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

Hey Henderson, if you are trying to swat a fly and you smash into the car in front of you, or cross the median, yes you absolutely should be ticketed! The police don't pull you over for swatting a fly, they pull you over if your distraction causes you to violate the traffic laws! Wow, some of these politicians are such a disappointment! Doesn't anyone use common logic anymore? Everyone better look out for Henderson driving around swatting flies with both hands while driving!! Disappointing, very disappointing. Especially since I voted for some of those politicians. I will remember this come election time, they obviously don't have the citizens best interest in mind.

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Dave Henderson

10:10 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

My point exactly... if I violate the law, give me a ticket... don't invent laws for me to violate so you can arbitrarily ticket me. That whole paragraph was silly.

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Sue Martin

9:45 am on Wednesday, August 15, 2012

Dave, given the volume of data the Chief of Police provided, can you share how many of the tickets given were arbitrary? And this was an ordinance, not a law, meant to correct poor driving w/o the larger, greater offenses under the law. It was a benefit to drivers, resulted in safer roads, and gave officers more discretion when ticketing -- a win/win for all.

Explain how that is so bad, and I might side with you. But I don't think you can.

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Emily Gorishek-Mason

10:09 am on Wednesday, August 15, 2012

@ Dave Henderson: Yes it was silly, it was meant to be silly. I would like to know, factually, how many tickets were given to Troy drivers for swatting at flies? I saw a man not too long ago driving down John R shoveling food in his mouth from a bowl he was holding. He had no hands on the wheel. There are careless people out there, those who endanger the lives of the citizens of Troy.
We have one of the best Police Departments around, and though I don't know them all personally, I believe they have our citizens best interest at heart. I don't believe they are driving around looking for arbitrary reasons to pull drivers over! I don't understand why you would take away a paragraph from the ordinance that saves lives. If it even saves one life, isn't that enough? Protecting your citizens should be #1, worrying about arbitrary tickets that may or may not be given to random distracted drivers should not even be an issue.
I have been a supporter of the Mayor through these hard times, but honestly, this is making me second guess her, and the council's motives. Are you protecting me? Do you have my family's best interests at heart? With this decision, I am not certain. Why worry about arbitrary tickets when it saves lives? Makes no sense. I'm sorry, but if you are driving down the road with no hands on the wheel and not paying attention to the road, you deserve the arbitrary ticket, because you are a MORON!

Carla

12:50 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

The back of my car has been hit twice, both times by someone on the phone. I can't tell you how many close calls I've had.

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GambitofTroy

1:55 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

I was car #2 in a four car pile up on Adams a couple of weeks ago....three of us were sitting at light while car number four was looking somewhere other than out his window and rammed all 3+1 of us into each other.

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Dave Henderson

10:11 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

Cell phone usage is still covered under the ordinance, and so is texting.

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Dave Henderson

10:13 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

And Gambit of Troy, Staring out the window at something else wasn't covered under the removed paragraph as long as at least one hand was on the wheel.

c t v

2:19 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

The other option open to the officers is a CARELESS DRIVING ticket - defined by state law - and is a 3 point civil infraction - that MAYBE would drive the point home quicker (with the greater amount of points) than the distracted driving ordinance.
That is also subjective - as they always are - and have to be supported by testimony given in court IF the violation is challenged.
Sounds like those 4 who voted for the change DO NOT know what they are doing, and I encourage the police to write the CARELESS DRIVING ticket instead of the other.

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Dave Henderson

10:15 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

Again one of my points in the argument. We already have ways to handle careless and reckless driving, and if someone crashes into someone or does something reckless, they need a 3 pointer IMHO. Heck you get 2 don't you for 5 over? Whats worse?

Cristian Teodoridis

9:57 pm on Tuesday, August 14, 2012

Great job by the responsible council members last night in removing the vaguely worded section of this ordinance. I would have personally preferred to have the entire ordinance scrapped, as the act of texting and driving is covered by the State law and therefore the Troy ordinance was not needed. All there's left now if the confusing part of not being able to speak on the phone unless hands-free, which is in contradiction with the State law which allows the use of a telephone.

But it was crucial to remove the vague section as this would only lead to subjective interpretations by the LEOs.

Again, great job and thank you!

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Lucille Musser Arking

12:09 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012

Really and you are on our school board . What a poor role model for our children . Shame on you. Maybe you are one of those who almost hit me while being distracted .

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Helen Rieland

2:19 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012

Actually Cristian ran for school board but was not elected.

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Ron Dwyer

8:47 am on Thursday, August 30, 2012

I agree. Thank you Dave Henderson for taking down this ridiculous ordinance. There are already laws on the books should you violate the law, such as careless driving should you swerve and hit another vehicle. To give the police a blank check to pull you over is Anti-American and hurt the city of Troy as many avoided our city and establishments. This was supposed to be a hidden tax increase on the city purportrated by Slater, McGinnis, Kerwin and Schilling. It has failed as the city has lost revenue by people avoiding our city.

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Sue Martin

9:28 am on Thursday, August 30, 2012

A "blank check" to pull you over? Are you kidding me, Mr. Dwyer?

Our police are so highly rated that other communities model what we do. They pay to use our facilities. Our force is highly lauded nationwide.

And you put into print that offensive statement? Chief Mayer has PROVEN week after week the efficacy of this ordinance. People like you who try to make this into some sort of governmental over-reach or abuse of police power are being unintentionally naive or purposefully insulting.

Chris P.

12:14 am on Wednesday, August 15, 2012

This council majority is proving to be a greater disappointment than I could have imagined. Watching the replay I see Henderson and Fleming pandering to the anti government crowd. (My apologies to the Police Chief on their behalf, and on behalf of all of us who failed to vote last November; to think that you were dealing with the idiocy of attempting to educate these two all while handling a homicide investigation.) Oh, Dave Henderson, I sure do sleep better at night knowing you took care of this truly awful paragraph in an ordinance that was working just fine just as it was! (Yes, that would be sarcasm.)

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Cathy Fucinari

2:56 pm on Wednesday, August 15, 2012

The 18 year old in Birmingham was charged with brandishing a firearm, disorderly conduct and obstructing an officer. That gun was loaded and cocked with a round in the chamber. You think this didn't require the discretion of the officers involved. He refused to produce identification, Any kid who might be drunk has to produce proof of age, Should less have been expected in this case. How can you say that in light of the massacres in movie theaters and temples these last few weeks? I understood you were paranoid when, during the community discussions on the library, you suggested to me that the city didn't fix the street in front of your house intentionally because you ride a motorcycle and you could get hurt. You are so paranoid that the officers will make a criminal out of you and I before we even committed a crime. Some circumstances actually contribute to dangerous situations on the road. You don't INTEND to have a crash, but distraction contributes to crashes. Let's go back to the drivers training I had 45 years ago. Keep both hands on the wheel, and pay attention to the road. Period. It improves safety for everyone. This last decade, people seem to think they can do whatever they want with out regard to the consequences. "If I'm driving between the lines, observing the speed limit, and not hitting the guy in front of me, stay out of my life." I'm not in your life, Dave, YOU are in mine, changing rules in my city!

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Linda

5:59 pm on Wednesday, August 15, 2012

Some people have to have the "rules" in black and white to follow them. It is beyond my comprehension how people can eat, read a map and talk on the phone all at the same time, and let me add, drive. I have witnessed this more than once while driving on I-75.

Since the police are giving warnings most of the time, it is a wake-up call for the driver. Yesterday I saw a lady trying to control her dog so she could see out the front window. Another one was eating and drinking at the same time using both hands. I should add that I was a passenger in our car so it was easy to observe driver behavior.

The long and short of it is, drivers need to pay attentiion to their own driving and not depend on other drivers to manuever around their mistakes.

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Tim McGee

6:24 pm on Wednesday, August 15, 2012

Today on the way to the library on Livernois south (which we all know is under construction and one lane), I narrowly avoided an accident by a man driving with his elbows and flossing his teeth. Then on my return home, I was cutoff by a women drinking a cup of coffee and smoking a cigarette...I assume she was using telepathy to steer the car?!

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Lucille Musser Arking

12:04 pm on Friday, August 17, 2012

Councilperson Henderson , I need to remind you of two things . If your father shaved in the car Iam horrified because I believe he was a school principal and should have been a role model for safety . Second , when you were a child Troy was a different in population etc. Iam very disappointed that 4 council people do not understand that this was passed because citizens in large numbers for their safety wanted it passed . It should not have been changed because the citizens requested this law for their safety. distracted driving is unsafe and for whatever reason causes the distraction it is unsafe to others . Please stop reversing our city rules unless we ask you to ... you respresent us not Bob Gosselin . .

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