so finding a person you love and getting married and having kids is a dangerous lifestyle ??? that's what my gay friends have done. as opposed to some of my straight friends who are on their second (or third) marriages, who have kids from 2 or 3 different fathers. which is more stable ?

A gay lifestyle is no more dangerous than a heterosexual lifestyle. If we are talking about HIV or any STD, anyone, straight or gay, runs the risk of contracting them with unprotected sex with a carrier, straight or gay. The only real danger homosexuals face in terms of their lifestyle alone is the risk of being assaulted for their orientation by homophobic thugs. How this type of bigotry, in so many people in this country, survives in the 21st century is a mystery to me.

If that is all that makes you happy, you have a rather shallow life.

Dena: The part about you 'having kids' is a bit laughable, to be sure. On the same subject, Patrick Reader (Ohio) is a great testimonial regarding the need for extreme caution before allowing gays to have control over children. And, before you go on about this being an isolated incident, recall Frank Lombard. I can supply a dozen or so research studies about the rate of pedophilia in this sub-culture if you like.

Michael: Please do not be absurd. Your lifestyle is awash in horrific risks and heightened likelihood of disaster, from AIDS and other STDs (55% of all new AIDS cases are adult gay men per the CDC), to anal and other cancers, to intra-relationship violence (i.e., gay-on-gay), to horrific rates of drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness, suicide, etc. To say your lifestyle is not associated with danger is absurd.

Steve: DO try to remain rational and fact based in your comments. What's next? A reference to Nazi? Racism? What?

I'm so glad that the gays are leading the way! Someday we will be free to marry whomever we want. As many people as we want. Any gender, any race, any species, any age. Go, my friends! Marriage freedom for all!

No, bigotry and homophobia should not be taken lightly, and she should be ousted from her job

@Craig Creek

I will replace homophobia with homophobe, will that satisfy you ?

The mayor was the one on offense.

Who among you has never made a remark at sometime in there life that has caused controversy. I don't think anyone can stand up and say that they never uttered a word that was hurtful or held controversy to others. Our country is in very serious times, with an administration that has ignored the plight of the amercan workers, ignored our constitution, ignored the laws of our governing bodies, where checks and balances are ignored as he forces through legislation after legislation, many against the will of the people. They are moving this country away from the Freedom to choose our own destiny and our right to determine or own life, to live in liberty and destroy the dreams that have made this a great, giving and free society.
Where are those that know freedom and will "they" speak out against what is happening, rather than worry about a remark, that was regretted and apologized for.
Wake up America and pay attention to the "real" problems we face in this country. With the onslaught of lack of family values, where free sex displayed openly in public, lack of moral value, and the opinion that all should be treated equally, and share in the hard work and compensation earned by others, will bring this country, which has been a guiding light to the world, to an end. Wake up, pay attention to the real problems we face, and stop your whining about an issue, that should not even be an issue.

Grandpamike, do you call a one-sentence rejoinder containing nothing more than your own charges a reason for overturning the voters' decisions? Just aking.

I've noticed over the years in many places that comments placed by liberals are seldom more than a phrase or a short sentence. Rarely an attempt to state a principle and defend it. Just an observation.

I guess it would be ok if it didn't cost anything. To equate the cost of a recall against the bigotry of her remarks, is, well, remarkable .

As a resident of Troy, I would gladly pay $1,000,000 to see this woman go. You cannot put a price on Truth and Decency, or underestimate the value of cooperation, tolerance and peace.

Here goes the lies again...it will not cost the city any additional money as the recall will occur during the normal November election...and the people that sponsored the recall petition are ALL Troy residents...and look at the results of this Patch poll: the overwhelming majority wants her out!

There you go with lies and misinformation again, and hiding behind a pseudonym. Janice Daniels is clueless about business or government. By the way, two more inaccurate statements: TRUST had nothing to do with the recall. The recall will be on the ballot for a scheduled election and will not cost a cent more.

These unacceptable politicians always have some sycophants that insist that everyone loves them and they are doing a great job. The truth is, that the majority of people neither know or care what a mayor does, but most people don't like to see the mayor break simple rules of civility. She has done that, which means she pretty much is an idiot and needs to go. No politician has the right to malign citizens.

Tim, the Patch poll? Do you think that proves anything? On what basis? I submit that the majority of us babbling here are liberals.

JDdoing a great job, the problem is, is that the old Mayors are the ones causing this
problem and they speak out about it because they don't want her to be Mayor. It is
a shame that they had their turn and can't stand that she may turn out better than the teacher that would ring a bell for one Mayor talking too long, shame on that one,
and shame on the ones that say they are friends of the library but hate this Mayor.
They have not even given her a chance to show the best she can do with each meeting have to listen to all of them get up and keep bringing up the past. We have
pains in Washington D.C. and the rest are in Troy. I would vote for her again and get
everyone I know to do the same thing.

sounds like you work for the city. have fun collecting the names for the petition.

Nich, you really mean Slater, McGinnis and Campbell They are three pees in a
pod, Wade is a fence rider so he will swing which way he thinks is the best for him.
He's an okay guy.

is she wrong saying its a dangerouse lifestyle? give me a break.

yes, yes she is wrong. and so are you.

Wiley, perhaps I shouldn't embarrass you by asking this question: What has Daniels done as mayor that has demonstrated harm to the city? Facts, man; just the facts.

*Gomorrah --- Thank you for proving the point that ignorance and bigotry go hand in hand.

yes, great idea to base your laws on the beliefs of nomadic desert dewellers from thousands of years ago. you know who else does that ? Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. How's that working for them ?

If we go under, so do you. You must be from one of the red states that we Californians are supporting.

smplme9, you are painting with a broad brush and have gone way beyond where the paint should be laid. As for Kollyfornia going under, it is doing so because of the fiscal policies that are the result of its other liberal follies. We can only hope that enough voters indicate by their votes in November that bankrupt states will have to find their own solutions. They are "sovereign states," remember. The Constitution gives them that power in all but a few instances.

Sck..., even if true, there is no evidence yet in her position as mayor that she has damaged the city. Take note that she is being recalled for fulfilling her campaign promise to vote against the transit center. I suspect that if the Troy voters are reminded of this they might question whether this is sound reason to recall her.

The liberals, however, will have no qualms about recalling her. After all, the votes of a majority mean nothing to liberals. Only their agenda counts. Again, the proof lies in the substance of the recall petition itself.

@Harry

I love how you frame this as a left/right wing argument. It is not, it is about decency, and tolerance of/toward others who do not subscribe to the same ideals you do. As a Mayor, she represents ALL of the people of Troy, not just the one's who she assumes has the same set of values that she has. When does all the hate and bigotry stop ? I guess it is the old idea that if you demean and restrict others, it somehow makes you a better person, it does not, it only shows you to be, a smaller, less enlightened individual. Leftwing loon, my a-s.

So Anton you support the below facts..
Those who have kept track of homosexuality’s status in American society know that homosexuality was taken out of the American Psychiatric Association’s DSM list of mental disorders back in 1973. This laconic defense ignores problems with the decision.

Even sympathizers with the APA’s decision admit that politics, rather than science, was the chief reason for removal.

Gay gene proponent Simon LeVay concedes, “Gay activism was clearly the force that propelled the APA to declassify homosexuality.”

Also, the final tally was not impressive. The vote was 5,584 to 3,810 out of about 30,000 APA members, meaning that only about 37 percent of the APA took part in the decision.

In total, only approximately 20 percent of the organization actually said yes to removal, meaning that as much as 80 percent of the APA in 1973 might have opposed removal.

Furthermore, the decision did not fully eradicate psychology’s condemnation of this now acceptable act, as “ego-dystonic homosexuality” remained on the books until the 1980s. Yet, as Dr. David S. Holmes noted, “because of changes in social norms and strong political pressures … homosexuality was not listed as a disorder.”

In other words, not science, but politics, was the chief factor.
.

Vicki, as I see it, It is a small group of people who not only initiate the bickering, but perpetuate it. Some of them have been elected, unfortunately. They were very effective at hiding their character. Watch some archived films of previous public comments and see who is responsible! Alas, no one warned us about ignorance. There is no law against being stupid. Or rude. Hence, so much misbehavior at city meetings. No wonder your daughter was appalled.

Well said, Vicki.

I completely agree with your observations. Our previous mayor was rude to the citizens who spoke. While they were speaking she was often opening a can of pop under the desk and not even listening. You would hear it open over her microphone and no one seemed to see anything wrong with that. She generally didn't even look at the people talking which is also rude when you are being addressed. On one visit we observed one of the key city employees sleeping off to the side - I guess he wasn't interested in what was going on. One of the council people referring to the citizens' commentary as "crap" his words not mine seemed to be ok and when asked to apologize he said he would not. In spite of how people may have felt about this no one jumped on board to recall these people. I've concluded any time I am voting I am selecting the lesser of the evils in front of me.

Vicki, how many meetings have you attended?? I remember the high schools having a certain amount of kids come to the meeting, did you come with your kid and
watch how they act?? I did and I would be ashamed if my kid ever acted that way when they were in school. Most of us that go to the meetings, go because we want to know and see what is happening and I saw the kids not pay attention, talk while the meeting was going on and sooner or later the Mayor would say we will take a break so the kids can get their papers signed to prove they showed up. If I were
their teacher I would have given each of them a report to write about the whole meeting then they would have learned something.

Auge, I'm not sure what your comment has to do with the behavior of the Council and Mayor. We're discussing how adult, elected officials should conduct themselves and no matter how well or poorly students attending the meetings behave, the rules don't change for the adults. As for attending meetings, I have attended several, and I witnessed the same childish behavior my daughter saw the night she attended

Nobody voted last year because of the choices that were available for Mayor. I did not vote because I did not like either candidate. The issue here is having term limits for the Mayor and city council in a small city. There just are not that many qualified people to pool from that are willing to take the job. The old term-limited Mayor and council members were doing just fine, but they could not run again due to term limits.

VoR, true that few voted. However, the vote was rather close. We cannot assume that the conservatives were better at organizing the vote that time than were the liberals. I don't think the voting results demonstrates that.

Yes, I do ask because I voted, my husband voted, my adult children voted, etc. I agree that the turnout was pathetic, but even so, those people that did go to the polls made poor choices.

VoR, If you don't live here than your mouth should be closed and pay attention to the
place you live, I for one live here and really don't care what you have to say. Start
arguing with people where you live instead.

Well stated - DC

DC, why should she be recalled when she campaigned against the Transit, when
that was the main reason I voted for her. That doesn't bring a recall to her. Get
your facts right. As for saying the word, the very next day in a store a lady said the same word (asking a clerk if something looked queer). Maybe we lived in a better world that that meant odd, different. and not what you think it means. and gay meant
happy. Too bad you don't use your head and think like we did.

Mackey, another perspective: Daniels campaigned on nixing the transit center. She won. The recall petition calls for her ouster only for doing what she said she would do.

Liberals have no problem with this, of course. The reason is simple: Liberals want what they want and the vote be damned. Now the liberals must do everything they can to sidestep the very issue on which the actual recall must now be based. You can bet they will not campaign on her vote last December because that is not a winning proposition for them.

Here's hoping that the supporters of Daniels remind the public just what the liberals have done.

Excellent observations from someone looking in from the outside. I so agree with you.

Sean, homosexuality is unnatural in one sense: the primary purpose of sex is the reproduction of the species, which cannot take place in a same sex situation at any time.
However, I think it unfair to take "unnatural" in this sense and make it the primary judgment about homosexuals themselves, given that we still know very little about the mind's, the environment's, and genetics' possible role in assigning sexual orientation. I doubt anyone ever makes a conscious, deliberative, willful determination about this. Environmental pressures (a prison, for example) might reinforce or change a basic orientation. And then there's the phenomena of asexuality and bisexuality.

Better that we keep "unnatural" out of the discussion.

That bigotry and bullying should be rooted out is not even open to discussion as far as I am concerned. That people should be allowed the quiet enjoyment of their lives, also, is without question.

Marriage has always been considered by all societies, as far as I know, as a union of a man and woman primarily to protect the family unit as an essential to the maintenance of those same societies. That concept must be preserved. We all have some limitations that prohibit our being a part of some "group." We must accept that regardless of our personal desires.

Sean, the 2nd paragrah of my response to you was typed as a conclusion, and I cannot explain its present position.

Sean, I agree 100% an individual with that kind of mental illness should be in a hospital not on the streets.

Nice one Alan, just goes to show you that social issues are more important the a financial and/or government colapse

Good for you Kenneth!

Judy, I believe you are right. A conservative who has fiscal priorities and built her entire campaign around them won the election. Liberals think it their job to dictate to people how much their taxes should rise and for what governmental purpose. When they lose at the ballot box, they do not quit.

Don't be surprised that, if the recall fails, the liberals go judge shopping somewhere in an effort to have their way. American political and legal history are replete with examples of this.

But it always conservatives who are "mean"!

Judy, I agree. As I read some of these comments all I could think was adult bullying but they don't seem to see their vicious words that way because they have an agenda they are trying to fulfill. I feel like I am reading comments from adolescents who don't have the skills to address issues in an intelligent adult manner without name calling.

Yes, thanks, fedupusa, for completely torpoedoing any accuracy as far as local views, that this poll could have hoped to aspire too.

FedUpUSA.org is based in TROY, MI.
http://www.fedupusa.org/about-us/

Nice try at coming up with excuses as to why your poll didn't turn out the way you expected.

Could be; Show me the links.

Here's the link saying to vote no: http://www.fedupusa.org/

Sinking low to show a picture of Janice Daniels with her Marine son (kudos to that) but not the issue at hand.

Sad, there may be cheating regarding the poll. What else is new about virtually every poll ever taken? However, you'll have to prove your point that there was "cheating" regarding the library issue. Independent auditors at a pre-election meeting at the Community Center demonstrated otherwise.

Also, in case you have forgotten or never learned of it at all, the City Council somehow "found" additional funds in the budget after the millage increase had been approved. This hardly proves your assertion.

Daniels "is going to damage our city"? It seems to me, then, that you must wait for evidence to prove your point. The recall points only to her vote regarding blocking the transit center--which was at the heart of the campaign itself and which the majority of voters expected her to do. This is what you will have to confront in the very language of the recall petition. Will you face the fact that the voters got what they voted for the first time 'round? It doesn't seem that you accept that.

We know this isn't middle school soccer. What is difficult for liberals to accept is the fact that conservatives have finally learned how to play ball by the liberals' own rules. The liberals are not amused.

I agree. I read several different Patch from different cities and I find the Troy Patch to be extremely biased and for whatever reason if you post something that is not in agreement with others you are verbally attacked or bullied until you finally leave. I don't know how to explain the difference but the Troy version is simply not nice.

Chris, I think the evidence proves the contrary to your assertion. I do find that when one posts logical counterpoints to the viewpoints of people of some persuasion, those same people do not continue the discussion--barring one exception here.

Please, do not confuse the presentation of a forceful counterpoint with "attacks" or "bullying." That is an excuse only for a person not up to the discussion.

Keep in mind, too, that Troy is now a city with a strong representation among its residents of two very different viewpoints of the nature of government itself. That is also true of the country at large. What you are now seeing is that "one side" is no longer accepting the position always offered by "the other side" that its views are not legitimate. The status quo has been upended, at least for now, and some folks just can't handle it. They certainly don't seem to be arguing it in these quarters.

Come on in and join the fray! We must remain civil, though.