Mr. Murrish is now cutting and pasting (and wrong, again). Wow, if you look at his comments concerning Ms Hodrek's Op Piece, they're all essentially a part of this blog. By the way, Michigan Citizens for a Brighter Tomorrow is a supremist organization. We received their robo calls, but none concerning Howrylak nor his wife, Most of them were brutal in their racism. But, again, nothing for the Troy Council to address, not a local issue. And again, Mr. Murrish paints with the same old brush If you disagree with him, you're a liberal. Maybe there's a whole bunch of us conservatives that think Mr. Murrish is way too far to the right, which is exactly what's wrong with the Tea Party branch. And, lest I forget, concerning this whole opinion piece, as with most of his posts, Mr. Murrish is wrong, again.

Excuse me while I have a heart attack and die from NOT surprise.

Everything is about political labels, not issues or facts. “Liberals, liberals, liberals….” ie anyone who does not agree with Dale Murrish. Because if you don’t believe what he believes you are evil and wrong and must be a ‘liberal’. HE uses no double standards or hypocrisy (sarcasm intended).

What have the so-called “liberals” or “conservatives” on the council done that is liberal or conservative? I would love for Dale, or anyone, to answer that question. These labels are nothing more than childish name calling and are completely unproductive. Is any issue taken with actual policy actions (what actually has transpired in the real world)? CM Flemming voted for the train station: does that make him a “liberal”? No, the issue is just invented labels and where certain people decide to apply them, as if that is some kind of argument.

People voted for and against the recall for a variety of reasons, and many of those reasons had nothing to with liberal/conservative/democrat/republican orientation. Troy is mostly conservative, but a majority supported the recall. But never mind, facts like these have no impression on Dale.

Dale,
I did not receive the hit-piece flyer that you are alluding to, perhaps Mayor Slater did not receive it either, so did not get the full import of the ugliness of the flyer. At any rate, I think he made a sympathetic gesture with his one-line comment which he did not need to say. I wonder how the person that came up to the podium with the complaint felt, maybe he felt good about Mayor Slater acknowledging the rightness of his complaint.
Maybe you could investigate exactly who "Michigan Citizens for a Brighter Tomorrow" is, that would be a positve step to expose these people.
I truly wish both Mayor Slater and Martin Howrylak the best in their new positions, both for themselves and out of self-interest, since their performance will have an impact on my life.

Dale, you said this: "there needs to be a civil discussion of issues, not personal attacks."

Can you tell me what part of calling Mrs. Schilling and Mrs. Stine "crabapples" is civil and not a personal attack?

Mr. Murrish ......, again. How frustrating to have to point out the obvious again and again. Without any basis in fact he ties the despicable MCBT to Democrats (liberals). My opinion is that a group formed on the basis of racial supremacy probably has liberals and conservatives in it, not a proven fact, but likely. And again, with the "year-long 100% negative campaign against her". The negatism was hers, and her minions certainly followed suit. And seriously, what was more negative than Mr. Murrish's attack/assault/ambush on former Mayors Stine and Schilling. Mr. Murrish really needs to be much more careful in his glass house, and with his black pot. It would also be nice if he were not wrong so often,

One other comment...Dale, you keep affirming that the council should listen to the 48% of people who voted "no" on the Recall, assuming they must all be Conservative voters.

Setting aside that fallacy, let me ask you this: why should council listen to the COLLECTIVE voices in the city? Are they not charged with doing what is best for us ALL?

I’m getting tired of having my words twisted into pretzels by people who just want to win arguments, though. They aren’t satisfied to let me have my own “radical right wing” opinion without disputing it. My purpose in offering my opinions is to get people to think; in particular, to challenge those on the left that there is another valid point of view besides theirs.

I am learning more about the other point of view and understanding it better as I write and read. I don’t expect to ever be converted and probably won’t convert anyone, but if we all understood each other better, knowing that we want the same good things for our community, it would be a huge step towards healing the wounds we have in Troy.

Dale: YOUR WORDS;
"I am learning more about the other point of view and understanding it better as I write and read. I don’t expect to ever be converted and probably won’t convert anyone, but if we all understood each other better, knowing that we want the same good things for our community, it would be a huge step towards healing the wounds we have in Troy."
Dale: find a way to make your words work and do something positive for the community. I suggest one of the following;Go back to school. Take a writing class; Volunteer to assist Habitat for Humanity; Deliver Meals on Wheels or drive patients for cancer treatment....When your nonsense runs empty you will move on. In the meantime, I remain hopeful voters pay attention to their local government and step up to be heard. Thank you Troy for voting YES: to RECALL MAYOR DANIELS.

February 26, 2013..............stay tuned!

Mayor Slater's quiet response reflected my own. Heartfelt and weary. And empathic. His own family has endured attacks on him. The first time I spoke at council against such attacks was right after the February 2010 millage vote failed. Did you know Janice and that group (including Howrylak) threatened filings against Mr. Slater in Lansing at that time? You see, Dale, this has been going on for so long from Martin Howrylak, the TCU, et. al. it is garnering the attention of groups outside our city. And now it is coming full circle. This is why the partisanship and the political games need to stop. The attacks on our employees need to stop. The "libs" vs. conservative tirades need to stop. I seriously don't think you understand how deep the wounds are and the damage that has been done. That Mr. Howrylak endured a hit piece is sad. But know this: it is equally sad that so many have been hurt by him. Shall I write a blog post providing all the details of the actions and harm caused over the past several years? How do you think Mary Kerwin's husband is feeling after the way Janice Daniels treated her the night Daniels mis-presented Mary's well-deserved proclamation? How about Mrs. Szerlag? Perhaps a club can be formed of the many, many spouses and family members harmed by the games launched by Martin Howrylak, the TCU, Janice Daniels et. al., neighbors literally attacking other neighbors in the name of conservativism. Perhaps you could lead and organize it.

Point 1: I know people on the left who voted no on the recall. Their reason was they opposed recalls in principle, even though they were really glad JD was on her way out. Don't make assumptions about the motivations or the politics of the no voters.

Point 2: You WERE insulting and juvenile in your presentation to council. We need to put this chapter behind us and find leaders in Troy who are interested in the best of the city and ALL of its residents, not just the left or the right. There is a reason that the city is NONPARTISAN!

Point 3: I was amazed that, as a self-professed engineer, you have so little knowledge about labs testing construction materials. You sat there and shook your head while they unanimously approved the contract for the testing lab, like it was an extravagance. It is a required step in any construction, to say nothing of wise, ensuring that the materials are as strong as designed. You should know this, if you are in fact an educated engineer.

Sue, I was referring to former Mayor Stine's tart criticism of Mayor Daniels during her first council meeting and lack of an apology after Mayor Daniels explained about the charter.

Also, Mayor Schilling's attempt to censure Martin Howrylak on the eve of the library millage election to influence the outcome. Partisan power play.

Former Mayor Stine had plenty of Democrat yard signs planted in her yard along with the Recall signs yet claimed to be a proud Republican at Monday's meeting. I know, not because I was stalking her, but because she was on the list of likely Republican voters when I was campaigning for Martin Howrylak.

So yes, apparently she votes in the Republican primary for the most liberal candidates she can find, which is her right. But to stand up and say she is a proud Republican is a bit deceptive, to say the least.

Thank you, Ellen, for the background perspective. I had never heard of Janice Daniels until after she was elected for Mayor. I was one of many in town guilty of voter apathy and did not even vote in that election. I now know what a political attack dog she was both for the operating millage and the Library millages.

Dale, you are correct. Mr. Fleming did trim the costs down. But, as a fiscal conservative, I'm disheartened that he did so. The trimming removed the "green" aspects of the project. This will drive operating costs up in the long haul. Penny wise and pound foolish decision making. Those funds will now go to another community. Hopefully they will use the money wisely.

Dale, I share Ellen's inquiry: were you aware of the attack politics of Mr. Howyrlak and Ms. Daniels over the past several years and the harm those tactics caused?

Why does Mr. Murrish feel the need to respond to every comment here? Didn't he have the opportunity to write an entire piece for himself to "vent"? Which was quite long by the way and in no way goes with the title "Best Wishes to Mayor Slater". It could have been better titled, "Best Wishes to Mayor Slater, Not."

Poking holes in Mr. Murrish's ridiculous posts is so tiring. Like shooting fish in a barrel. Not talking about Mayor Slater at all, but using his soapbox to launch critisms at so many different people/organizations, it's hard to keep up.......starting with accusing other political candidates of things that are outside their control, instead of researching the offending organizations and flying your issues up THEIR flagpoles. Where's YOUR apology, Dale? Regarding the attack piece on Martin Howrlak, I did see it. It was inflammatory. However, based on the other campaign materials I saw that came from Mary Kerwin, it was blatantly obvious these weren't of the same origin. Why not research to expose the offending party, and demand an apology from THEM? While you're at it, why not demand an apology from Martin Howrylak who attacked Mary directly, called her a liar for not receiving his mis-mailed Campaign Pledge (and interestingly proved his own assertion false when he provided proof of the undelivered envelope), and intentionally mischaracterized her campaign platorm commitment to repeal the pension tax? It's time for the fun and games in Troy leadership to stop, Dale. You are only continuing to stir up trouble and try to upset people by cutting and pasting erroneous information and "recycling" previous flawed postings. Calling past leaders "crabapples" from the council podium is just as inflammatory and juvenile. Knock it off, Dale. And grow up.

Dale, I have been reading your posts and all the comments that they engender and I'm so tired of it. I know I could quit reading them but I am one of the many interested in healing the divide in the city and I'm looking for clues as to how to go about it. Above you made the following comment "if we all understood each other better, knowing that we want the same good things for our community, it would be a huge step towards healing the wounds we have in Troy."

I agree with this statement for the most part. I also think we understand each other pretty well and we just don't agree on many things. But the good news is that many of the things we don't all agree on really have nothing to do with Troy. So why don't we get on with this then? Why don't we start talking about the good things that we all want for Troy? What do you want? Why don't we see if we can come up with a list of things that we all want.

Here's an idea. We could quit talking politics. We could quit using political party jargon. Then let's see if there is anything else we really want to talk about. Maybe we can get back to being good neighbors to each other.

Wow Dale, bitter much?

I completely agree with you that politics is rough game. Get a helmet.

It does amaze me that so many bother to read Dale's comments. As someone wrote, he labels his articles one thing and then does the opposite. Look, you win some you lose some. We succeeded in removing from office a woman who was not fit for the job. Dale succeeded in getting his favorite lawn mowing service technician (Martin Howylak) a seat in the State House. I suppose we should all be grateful for what we have and move on.

Glenn, it's the general principle of one big pot and considering all options, not just having a "closed forum" to shut down all free speech of billboards along I-75. Other towns get tax revenue from billboards, why not ours?

It's being considered for the new transit center; why have the sounds of silence along busy I-75? How about corporate sponsorships for the Troy Historical Society and Nature Center instead of just lamenting the lack of tax money? Many other public-private entities seek business sponsorship from companies that want visibility.

Thank you, John David for the facts. It is good that the Troy sign ordinance is specific on sign placement...a billboard is simply a stand-alone, very large sign placed high up. I get a negative feeling of "ugly" whenever I've driven through suburban business sprawl across America on surface roads plastered with billboards.

Wonder what Scenic America thinks of windmills spoiling the view of the pastoral landscape in rural areas? I find billboards useful when traveling to plan exits for food and lodging. They make daily commuting more interesting if the messages are changed, but can be annoying if done to excess.

The point is we all have different opinions about the best way to fund things. All views should be heard and considered by our elected officials; they hopefully make the best decisions that are good for the majority without stomping on minority rights.

For the record, once the unnecessary project was approved, I would have voted FOR the $64,000 testing and the construction manager to control cost overruns. My proposal to upgrade the Birmingham station was ignored by the council majority.

In my opinion, the only thing lacking in the current location was a shortage of dedicated parking (only 20 spaces). An upgraded structure could have been built on the existing site for much less, probably around $200K. Other factors favored the current Birmingham location.

http://troy.patch.com/articles/letter-to-the-editor-improve-current-transit-center-don-t-build-new

The transit center was far from unanimous in its support, despite what supporters say. Yes, it was ten years in the planning, but people were planning to spend our federal tax money on a very expensive project that did NOT improve train service.

Yes, it does improve the infrastructure (a 2000 SF waiting room with heat and a 20,000 SF empty footbridge with elevators because the waiting room is on the wrong side of the tracks), but at a very high marginal cost ($18.73 per passenger subsidy on the annual interest payments based on the current 66 passengers per day, never mind repaying the principal).

http://troy.patch.com/blog_posts/troy-transit-center-the-real-cost-of-the-footbridge

Yes, there is also a bus depot, but the bus station also does NOT improve service and could have been built on less expensive land elsewhere as proposed by Dave Henderson.

People on both sides of the political spectrum voted to keep Mayor Daniels. Some who hadn’t voted for her agreed with my arguments about having regular elections and thought she should finish her term. Some who voted for her last November thought she had gone beyond her job description and voted to recall her. Over half the petition signers hadn’t bothered to vote last November; presumably most of them voted to recall her.

I’ve never called anyone a kooky liberal, only said that all voices should be heard and considered. We need to combine everyone’s best ideas to move forward. That is what our city council has done and will keep doing. I have confidence in their collective abilities and will continue to support them even when I disagree. I will not stoop to the harsh name-calling and disrespecting of people’s professions used by many on the Left, however. Any honest work is worthy of respect.

Will, that’s exactly my point. Farmers in Indiana and ranchers in Texas have windmills on their own land. It generates revenue for them. They’re largely Republicans. It’s a personal preference thing, not a political party or an ideology. Private property rights and respect for others, without decreasing the value of another’s property. That’s why we have zoning laws in built-up areas.

http://troy.patch.com/blog_posts/a-guide-to-ballot-proposals-proposal-3

Cookiepro, I like the blue signs at exits, too. Billboards are helpful for planning ahead, though. Where would we be without the Wall Drug signs all over the country? It’s quite a place, if you’ve never been there. No one would likely visit that small town in South Dakota otherwise. Michigan and Ohio have Bronners billboards that help Frankenmuth’s tourism, too.

There’s a balance. Hopefully we find it between the farmer having a right to put up a billboard in his field and earn some extra money and not littering the landscape for everyone by having too much eye clutter. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Overly restrictive zoning laws can restrict revenue streams of governments, as in Troy’s defacto ban of all effective freeway billboards along I-75. Nanny government, like Troy’s distracted driving ordinance when it’s properly a state issue. At least we’re not as bad as California with its many ballot proposals and government restrictions on property owners, yet.

If the majority of people want it, that’s fine. I didn’t even know about it though, and I’d wager that >95% of Troy citizens don’t know about this “closed forum.” I’ve lived here almost 25 years and never even noticed that there weren’t any billboards along I-75 in Troy. It’s really just a few activists setting the rules for the rest of us when no one is paying attention.