Madison Heights Woman, 52, Killed by Car in Troy Parking Lot

Big Truth November 26, 2012 at 04:55 am

The 68 year old woman needs to pay a $1 million fine, lose her license forever and serve 5 years in prison. Once she is released from prison, she can apply for public assistance and section 8 housing.

Concerned Citizen November 26, 2012 at 05:22 am

Big Truth: jReally? This is all you know of thie incident and this is the conclusion you come to? Perhaps negligence will be proven. And punishment shall be warrenteed. Perhaps a terribly sad accident in which all involved are suffering tremendously. Who are you to make such judgements? Find love. Find God.

Jen Anesi (Editor) November 26, 2012 at 01:01 pm

Big Truth, you know next to nothing of the situation or what circumstances led up to the incident (unless you were in the car with the driver, which I doubt you were). Perhaps you should refrain from convicting the driver, who has not yet even been charged with anything (that I'm aware of), let alone gone to court. Please show some sensitivity. Thank you.

truth November 27, 2012 at 05:13 pm

I totally agreed with Big Truth. If someone gets hit while backing up, first thing should be applying brakes. She shouldnt had drag someone for 40feet. So she should be in jail, child lost their mother.

Barbara Koehn November 27, 2012 at 10:28 pm

It would appear that the Troy PD is investigating the accident. Let's not jump to conclusions. Until such time as the police swears out a warrant and the driver is charged, goes to trial and is convicted, she is innocent. Let's not convict someone in the court of public opinion.

Peter Griffin November 29, 2012 at 05:39 pm

Barbara, tell that to the kids who lost their mother and the husband who lost his wife.

Concerned Citizen November 29, 2012 at 06:14 pm

Peter...... Your comments are disgusting. You may realize that when you grow up. The point is the woman should have her due process before any of us arrive at such conclusions as yours. Of course, everyone is filled with sorrow for the woman who died and her children. Why do you spew venom? What is missing in your life that such hateful words come out so easily? (Rhetorical)

Peter Griffin November 29, 2012 at 07:10 pm

Guilty is guilty. Why must you defend those that are in the wrong? I still find your "Find love" quite laughable. I have also been censored...guess the editor also wants to "take it easy" on the old bag. I feel bad for the family of the woman who was run over, but I hope the old lady rots for this. And yes, I had a family member who's boyfriend/fiance was killed by an old lady that did a similar thing.

brian t. dogge November 29, 2012 at 07:29 pm

What happened to all of Peter's comments? I totally agree with him. The old lady was "confused" and messed up badly. She deserves everything she gets. There comes a time whe old people need to give up the priveledge of driving. That old lady really ruined Christmas for one family. I hope she knows that.
BTW, Concerned Citizen -- you shouldn't ride such a tall horse. It's a pretty big fall when you get bucked off.

Concerned Citizen November 29, 2012 at 08:48 pm

Precisely Brian! So if it happens to be you, or Peter, that fall, we will be there to stand by you, until found guilty. Very good..... you're catching on!

John David November 29, 2012 at 09:41 pm

The driver is entitled by the U.S. Constitution to due process, trial, and equal protection under the 8th and 14th amendments and other provisions, as well as the presumption of innocence. If she is charged with any criminal infraction, the government bears the requirement to prove the driver's guilt for the charge. And the punishment, if any, must be reasonable under the 8th amendment. We have been blessed with our Constitution and our legal rights, which protect us all. It would be good if the Patch could provide an update regarding both the victim and the status of the driver.

brian t. dogge November 30, 2012 at 12:13 am

John, the victim is dead. I don't really care about the status of the driver. As far as "presumption of innocence" - the driver's car was ON TOP of the victim, what does that tell us? I don't believe that makes the driver innocent of any wrong doing.
Mr. Zimmerman was assumed guilty of killing Travon and probably is. OJ was assumed guilty of killing his wife and Ron Goldman and was (even though the court said, 'not guilty'). Robert Blake shot his wife and that is obvious. We all know that Kwame is guilty of everything even though he says he's not. My point is that if it looks like a skunk and smells like a skunk, it's probably a skunk. The old lady is guilty of not looking before backing up and killing someone. I'm sure the court will disrespect the victim and the victim's family by going easy on the old lady because she is....OLD. This would never happen if everyone either pulled through to the space in front of them when parking or if drivers backed into their parking space. Backing in is the best option because you know what is in your space before you put it in reverse. I bet this old lady didn't look behind her by turning her head when backing up...I bet she just looked in the rear view mirror as she was moving backward. I have seen many elderly not look behind them when backing up because they are not flexible enough to turn their head like that. And CC - don't agree with me...please.....never...just don't do it.

Barbara Koehn November 30, 2012 at 06:10 am

Peter-While we are all sorry for the loss of a mother and a wife, the person who allegedly hit her is still innocent until proven guilty in this country. The person who was at fault should be held accountable and probably will, but it is not for us to decide, unless we are part of her jury. This is not the Old West where a posse would go out and get the person who committed a crime and hang them from the tallest tree. We have become more civilized than that. All we can do is wait and see what happens after the police investigates.
Oh, and Peter, I have had to tell numerous children and/or adults about the death of a loved one-It is a difficult and heart-wrenching task, but I have done it.

Concerned Citizen November 30, 2012 at 04:40 pm

I appreciate your comments, Barbara. I think it has been missed by a few here that several who have commented on this are not claiming innocence for the driver. If she is found to be negligent, we all hope for just punishment and as John points out, the constitution obligates us to it. This was heart renching for all to hear and I can only imagine the pain the family endured. However, the details are unknown and our system does work to find truth and justice..... Either way.

Amanda Wilson December 2, 2012 at 09:05 pm

at a certain age the elderly should have to forfeit their license as a matter of public safety.

Amanda Wilson December 2, 2012 at 09:08 pm

Plain and simple...yet ANOTHER unnecessary death caused by an old geezer that likely had no business driving. I'm guessing you (concerned citizen) are one of the aforementioned. Get your priorities straight. A wife/mother is dead and you want to stand up for the old fart that ran her down?

John David December 2, 2012 at 11:26 pm

Wilson,
As of 2009, those drivers aged 65 to 74 years old (and those over 75 for that matter) had fewer fatal accidents than those aged 25 to 64 years old. The same is true for all accidents. Maybe drivers should forfeit their licenses at 25 and get them back at 64. http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1114.pdf

Amanda Wilson December 3, 2012 at 01:52 am

John David, your logic is flawed. How many people are driving are between the ages of 25 and 64? The majority. How many 65-74? A much smaller number. Of course more accidents involve people between the ages of 25 and 64! There is more to the story than the number of accidents caused by each age group...especially when the first group likely comprises a good 75-85% of the driving population. That's like saying that the majority of crime is committed by non-blacks. Of course it is...since black people only account for about 20% of the population. You need to look at the statistics of what percentage of the demographic group is higher. Understand?

Amanda Wilson December 3, 2012 at 01:58 am

Maybe a lot of us are tired of dealing with "blue hair" behind the wheel. I have been in three accidents in my 17 years of driving. All of them were caused by elderly people that had no business behind the wheel. Meanwhile each time my car was wrecked and all I got was the crappy $500 deductible because that was all the insurance I could afford. Then the elderly person pays a fine and gets a new car while me and my three kids are stuck walking.

cookiepro2 December 3, 2012 at 09:46 am

Not going to comment on this particular case. But I would like to say that at some point everyone's driving skills degrade due to aging to the point where it is a public safety hazard. You would hope that one would know when to voluntarily turn in a drivers license. But some don't know or don't have relatives to take action (it can be a touchy subject to broach). I had an elderly relative who suffered a stroke and as a result had a limited field of vision and impaired judgement. She swore she couldn't wait until the conclusion of therapy so she could drive to the store again. We removed her car before that could happen.
Once I saw an elderly woman at Krogers in one of those large sedans backing out hitting a parked car, pulling back into her space, trying again, and hitting another parked car, repeat. She was oblivious to what she was doing even though a Kroger employee was screaming at her to stop.

Peter Griffin December 3, 2012 at 05:00 pm

Amanda -- I feel your pain. About 10 years ago I had a 'blue hair' rear end my pickup in her SUV (way too much vehicle for her to handle) and she bent my bumper under on one side. I was stopped at a stop sign waiting to pull out onto Tienken Rd. I inched up a bit (maybe 2 feet) for a better view and she slammed into me. I got out of my car and she stormed out of hers (she was in her late 60's - early 70's and I was about 30). The first thing she yelled was, "I thought you went..." I told her, "obviously, I didn't. Look at my bumper." She replied, "oh, it's not too bad. I bet it will wax out." "Really...wax out...are you kidding....it's bent".
She must have floored the accelerator pedal to slam me so hard (She was stopped behind me when I was waiting to go). She then tried to say that she confused the brake and gas pedals (Typical...). Anyway ----- I filed a mini-tort letter as advised by my insurance agent since the police said she was 100% at fault. I went to 3 dealerships/collision shops and found out what it would cost to have it fixed. One was about $200, one was around $350, and one was $495. I had it fixed at the most expensive shop and sent here the bill. She paid me (through the mini tort with a personal check for $495) and I photocopied everything and sent copies to her insurance agent just so they knew what she was involved in. I was still on the hook for the $35 for the rental car for the day my truck was in the shop for repair.

Peter Griffin December 3, 2012 at 05:06 pm

John David - younger drivers drive badly due to inexperience, while elderly drivers drive badly because that is the best they can do.
I still remember a few years ago the elderly man who was in the car wash, across from the coffee shop, at University and Main. He confused the gas and brake pedals, went across 5 lanes of traffic, and did his best "kool-aid man" impersonation by crashing thru the wall of the coffee shop. Luckily, no one was injured or killed, but he was "confused". Nice driving skills. Didn't an elderly man pinball off of 13 cars in downtown this past summer after being "confused"??

John David December 3, 2012 at 06:17 pm

I don't think the data is flawed. Simply blaming age for accidents and fatalities isn't right. There is more to it. Up to age 75 it appears that drivers are statistically still comparable to other age groups. Peter, young people have caused horrific accidents as have every age group. Age may or may not have played a role.
http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/older_people.aspx

Amanda Wilson December 3, 2012 at 07:07 pm

John David - I don't know how to explain this to you any simpler than I already have. Here, let me give you an example. Let's say that we have 500 cats. Out of those 500 cats, 100 are grey haired tabby's, and 450 are Siamese. In the giant house where all of these cats reside there has been an epedemic of out-of-litterbox accidents on the couch. The owners of this house set up a hidden camera and discover that, over the course of one year, 100 accidents occur outside of the litterbox. Upon closer inspection of surveillance video, the homeowners find that 60 of the 100 "accidents" are cause by the Siamese cats, whereas only 40 of the "accidents" are caused by the grey haired tabby's. So John David? Which group is more at fault in your eyes? As I see it, the grey haired tabby's as a whole are much more likely to cause an accident, seeing as 40% of them apparently did (or at the very least some of them had multiple accidents).
Look at the issue as what percentage of a demographic group is causing an issue and eliminate the risk.

John David December 3, 2012 at 07:21 pm

Amanda, what I have not seen any facts to base forfeiture of licenses based only on age.

Amanda Wilson December 3, 2012 at 09:05 pm

John David
I suppose I could spend some time (when I'm done with my homework) scouring the Internet for information related to demographics and how they relate to the number of fatal car accidents. At this point though, I feel pretty strongly based upon my own experiences as well as things that I have witnessed. In my lifetime I have owned 6 cars. Two of them I drove into the ground and it eventually became impossible to fix them without replacing the engine. One of them I sold to buy a different car, and three of them were rendered junkyard fodder. All three junkyard cars were destroyed because an elderly person wasn't paying attention or didn't remember how the hell to drive. As well, I have been witness to several auto accidents...all except for one involved an elderly driver. I'll dig and research some facts for you later, when I have a second...until then just know that I have been on the receiving end of elderly people who should have been riding the OPC bus or taking a taxi. I am just thankful that none of my children were killed by these people.

Peter Griffin December 4, 2012 at 02:34 am

Amanda - you are one of the few who understands that when people get to a "certain age", people need to take away the keys. I don;t feel bad one bit for the old woman, but feel horrible for the family of the other lady that was run over. I hope that old lady realizes how she forever marked the Christmas season as the time that someone's wife/mother was selfishly taken away.
I don't know why people feel the need to ride to the rescue whenever an old person does something wrong -- they feel that they need to protect the elderly from the truth. Saw an article in the Clawson Patch that an 81-year old lady ran her car INTO a hair salon --- crashed right through it. Nice bit of driving. I bet she will say, "I was confused". Someone will also come to her rescue and shout down anyone who says anything negative about her. Go figure.

Amanda Wilson December 4, 2012 at 04:38 am

Thanks Peter. I think it's just an extension of political correctness with these people...that and they don't want the responsibility of driving their elderly parents around to doctor appointments, etc. God forbid one of the noble blue-hair defenders on here manages to watch a loved one get dragged across a parking lot by some old bat who left her hearing aide at home. Some tunes in here would be changing.

Jen Anesi (Editor) December 4, 2012 at 12:30 pm

I have put in another inquiry to TPD to see if there have been charges filed yet. As of Friday, there had not.
In the meantime, I am closing comments on this story. Two families are in a lot of pain right now, and some of these comments, which presume the driver is guilty before she has even been charged with anything, are simply insensitive. Thank you for your contributions.